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A!A 2/2

Date: 2014-09-24 03:53 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
stupid formatting fail and character limits!

Hell, I even felt for Elenwen. I hate the Thalmor as much as the next person, but even they, in all their wickedness, are something to be pitied. Their stated goal is to create a "new Merethic era" which was the height of Altmer culture and power. They want their glory days back. Add to that, the loss of the Crystal Tower (during the Oblivion Crisis), the center for all their history and magical learning, and a monument to their ancestors. And that was only about 200 years ago: there are, in all likelihood, more than a few Altmer who lived through that. What do you feel when you are robbed of your empire, and then your history? It shouldn't be surprising that a number of them became nationalist zealots, resulting in the Thalmor we know today. It must be quite the twist of the knife to hear the young human races say "but it was ALWAYS this way!" Given the methods and logic they use, it doesn't seem at all impossible that they use training that is more akin to "brainwashing" on their recruits. Who comes out of that compassionate and understanding of others? Even their own soldiers don't like the Thalmor, much. Elenwen, is another product of that, which makes her a casualty, even if she herself doesn't realize it.

Which is part of why the death of Ondolemar is deeply upsetting: he's the only Thalmor agent even marginally willing to talk to you about why he thinks the Altmer are supreme. About why he thinks humanity is inferior and ignorant. Any sort of questioning is usually a death sentence, but by the very fact that he is willing to actually explain his point of view, he's just given you an opportunity to understand him, and possibly the rest of the Thalmor, by extension. Dialogue brings understanding, and understanding is the first step towards making peace. It would still be a hard-won peace, though, and paid for in blood.

It's why your role as the Dragonborn is so vital to everything: you're the only one who has any agency, any ability at all to change things, or even just move things along.

Then again, your very free will can be called into question, if you're character's interactions with Hermaeus Mora is any indication... but that's yet another rant for another fill.

Wow, sorry about the rant! I'm a bit of a history nut, if you haven't already guessed.

Re: A!A 2/2

Date: 2014-09-25 12:08 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sorry to jump in and derail this thread, but hang on a sec:

Are you seriously saying that you can write a fic that redeems even Elenwen?

Horrifying to think about, but I almost want to read this.

Re: A!A 2/2

Date: 2014-09-25 12:46 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I think what Anon's saying is that even with Elenwen there are reasons why she's basically a terrible person (to the vast majority of the populace, anyway) - reasons, not excuses. Put in that frame of light even I feel sorry for her and her people. But none of their losses excuse what they've done as a result - they just give insight into why they did what they did.

captcha says 'good samaritan' that's probably my cue to get the hell outta this discussion

A!A again!

Date: 2014-09-25 05:13 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Yes, that is precisely what I meant to say: Everyone has a story, and very rarely is anything we do without an underlying reason. But as you said Helpful!Anon, "reasons, not excuses".

Consider Legate Fasendil's words on the Thalmor and "The Night of Green Fire" and for further reading, the four volume set of "Rising Threat" by Lathenil of Sunhold, on the rise of the Thalmor to power in the aftermath of the "Great Anguish" (aka the Oblivion Crisis). If you're interested in pursuing the lore further, I can happily point to more resources.

But to address your question Horrified!Anon: I'm not sure there truly is a way for me to "redeem" her. I might be able to portray her as a number of things, but true redemption is beyond my limited abilities. In large part, because we know so little about her, so much of what could be written would be difficult to call "in character", and not absurdly AU. The other part, is because we know so little of Altmer culture and Thalmor history. Elder Scrolls Online is expanding the known lore, but again, not by enough for someone of my limited knowledge and skill. That said... I would absolutely LOVE to see someone tackle the idea.

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